S6 E03: Imposter Syndrome

[00:00:00] Ioannidou: Have you ever struggled with severe feelings of self-doubt? It's known as an imposter syndrome and it can, and it does happen to everyone, whether you are in the early career stages or in, you know, more senior stages. As a seasoned professional.

Hello everybody, I'm Dr. Effie Ioannidou.

[00:00:20] Wright: And I'm Dr. ArNelle Wright. It's something most people don't talk about, so I'm really excited for this important conversation today.

So why don't we go ahead and get started?

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[00:00:48] Wright: We are talking about an important wellness topic, imposter syndrome.

[00:00:51] Ioannidou: Yeah.

[00:00:52] Wright: Today we're going to be having a fantastic conversation with some special guests, but first, let's get a professional take on this topic and learn how to be equipped with some strategies on managing these feelings. We have a license mental health counselor from Talkspace here to tell us more.

[00:01:09] Colizza: Hi, my name is Liz Colizza. I'm the Director of Clinical Content at Talkspace. I'm also a licensed professional counselor with over 10 years of clinical experience working with adults, couples and adults recovering from trauma. I'm here today to talk to you about imposter syndrome. Let's start with defining imposter syndrome.

What is it? Imposter syndrome is not a diagnosis. It's a psychological experience of persistent feelings of inadequacy and self-doubt. Despite evidence and experiences that point to success and competency. With imposter syndrome, someone experiences an intense fear of being exposed as a fraud or imposter, and they work hard to try to make that not happen.

Why is imposter syndrome common among healthcare professionals and dentists? You know, when I think of that question, several things come to mind—one is, the high expectations of the job. Being a dentist demands a high level of skill and precision, and it also is safe to say that people that become dentists are high achieving individuals, and we know that high achieving individuals can hold themselves to very high standards.

I also think about the fear of making mistakes, which I think can be really large when you're a dentist, because your mistakes can literally cause harm to patients, and so this fear can feel overwhelming to a dentist. I also think about when you enter the field as a dentist, how many other people are in the field, and that it's easy to compare yourself to other people that are more experienced.

It's easy to look at them and then to feel that you're not progressing as well or that you don't measure up, and then I also think about the field of medicine and being a dentist and how it's continually evolving and changing over time. And being a dentist means that you need to keep up with best practices and research, and I imagine that it can feel like you're perpetually behind and so how does imposter syndrome show up for dentists?

I've already mentioned the feelings of self-doubt and feelings of inadequacy that can make someone stay in their head, can cause feelings of rumination. Spiraling thoughts can also lead to higher levels of anxiety, and what we know about anxiety is that it lives in our body and we physically experience it, causes a racing heart, can cause shallow breathing, and it can interfere with the daily habits like sleep and eating, which can just snowball making it hard for a dentist to do their daily responsibilities at work. We also know that imposter syndrome can trigger mental health challenges like anxiety and depression.

And when you think about those intense feelings of self-doubt and inadequacy and the fear of being found out, all of that compels someone to overwork, to try to white knuckle through so that nobody finds out that I'm a fraud. This can put you at risk of burnout and so, what are some ways that we can fight against this?

We can support ourselves if we're struggling with imposter syndrome. What comes to mind first is this phrase, “name it, to tame it”. It's a phrase in the therapy world that means the more that we can put words to what we're experiencing, the more our nervous system calms and our brain starts to make sense of what's happening despite what imposter syndrome tells us. Which is that we're alone in feeling like a fraud, and those that self-doubt and inadequacy is just unique to us.

It's normal to feel self-doubt, inadequacy, insecure when we start new things. So the more that we can talk about the thoughts and feelings that we're having, the more we can move toward a way of supporting ourselves and having flexibility. I also think about dentists and being new to the field and thinking it seems very important for someone to get a mentor, to have someone that has been in the field longer, that has experience that can talk with you through what you're going through, can validate what it's like to be a new dentist, can validate and talk through the challenges.

I also think it's important when you are struggling with imposter syndrome to slow down and to think through the small successes that you're having and to celebrate those for yourself, even if it's not going perfectly. There's always things that we're doing well, even if we're also doing things poorly or medium or okay.

It's also important with imposter syndrome to find other areas of life to feel successful and connected that are outside of work. With imposter syndrome, we can feel like our whole identity is wrapped up in that one thing, in that job, and so it's important for dentists to find something else outside of work that is something that makes you feel good, makes you feel competent, successful.

It's also important to practice for yourself a growth mindset. You can do this on your own. You can do this with a mentor. This means when mistakes happen, which they're going to happen, that you accept them, you process them, and you learn from them so that you can move forward differently. It gives us the experience of knowing that to do the job well, we don't have to do it perfectly.

And so, when we think about being a dentist, and maybe you yourself aren't struggling with imposter syndrome, but you have a colleague who might be. How can you support that colleague with imposter syndrome? I think about providing emotional space for another person. That means being someone that's approachable, that asks open-ended questions, that validates their feelings, even if they seem irrational.

I also think about being someone that's authentic yourself in your job, and so sharing with that person who's struggling your own struggles, your own anxieties, mistakes that you make, and doing it in an approachable way. And I think as a colleague of someone with imposter syndrome, you can be someone that celebrates and recognizes that person's strengths and contributions, even the small ones, to let them know, “hey, you are doing some things well, even if this is hard.”

You can also offer to mentor anyone that's new to the field. If that person that you think has imposter syndrome is new, offer to walk alongside them to be someone that they can process with and then I think big picture for ourselves or for a colleague with imposter syndrome, we want to encourage self-compassion and self-care strategies.

That means coming alongside someone and asking them, what have you done in the past that's helped when you've felt this way? What are you doing this weekend that's going to help you unwind, relax, recharge. “Hey, what do you like to do in your free time?” Can also mean inviting them to do something with you that is outside of work or letting them know about a podcast, a book, or a resource that has helped you in your journey toward becoming the dentist that you want to be.

[00:07:38] Ioannidou: Thank you, Liz.

I want to let our listeners know that ADA members now have access to two tools to get the mental health support they need, Talkspace Go and Talkspace Therapy. We'll add a link to more details in the episode notes section.

[00:07:55] Wright: Yes, I am so excited to talk about this topic. It's really refreshing for dentists to open up about this and for us to begin to help others.

[00:08:04] Ioannidou: I completely agree and I really can't wait to hear what our special guest today has to say about this.

[00:08:13] Wright: Yeah, agreed. So, without further ado, let's welcome our guest, Dr. Jordan Pierre—hey, welcome to the show.

[00:08:22] Pierre: Hey guys. Hello. Thank you, guys for having me. I appreciate it.

[00:08:26] Wright: Yeah. Well, we are so glad that you're here. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I love that you're an ADA Wellness Ambassador. So, as you share a little bit about yourself, can you tell us about the ADA Ambassador Program and why when you were in that role, why you focused on imposter syndrome at work specifically? Just tell us all of the things.

[00:08:47] Pierre: Gotcha. So, I'm Dr. Jordan Pierre, I practice in Nashville, Tennessee, I'm from New Orleans, Louisiana and I've been practicing now a few years, I'm a little bit more seasoned than I was and, in the year of 2023, I was an ADA Wellness Ambassador 2023, 2024.

It's a really funny story how I actually became a wellness ambassador. I was at an event with some docs, and I'm a very blunt person, usually. Especially when I'm like really comfortable with people. I'm like, really, let's just go straight to the point. And this guy was just complaining, like he was complaining and I was like, man, you need to go talk to somebody and the guy that was the wellness ambassador the year before me, he was like, “you know, like you said it kind of whatever, but that was the best advice anybody gave him” and I was like, “thanks”. He was like, “you should be an ADA Wellness Ambassador” and I was like, “okay”. I had never even heard of it before, so I joined and it was actually a really good thing for me at the time, where I was in my career and what I was doing, you know?

We go through a lot as dentists, and it's not talked about.

[00:10:14] Wright: Oh yeah.

[00:10:14] Pierre: And when I started going through the program, I was like, man, like this is a really good program, this is something that can help people overcome things. People have demons that they struggle with in silence. People have just things that they have going on and they have no one to talk to about it. They have no one to lean on, and the funny thing about the ADA and why I love the ADA, it's like, you don't even know that you have all of these resources available to you. You know? Like so many people have a village that they just don't tap into. So wellness ambassador and the whole wellness ambassador program, it's truly like, being there for your fellow man.

[00:10:57] Ioannidou: Yeah, that's very well said. Were you like this through Dental school? Did you have this interest in wellness or is this something that came to you as a direction and focus after graduation and in practice as you faced this? You know, different elements and struggles, perhaps.

[00:11:17] Pierre: I've always been a very blunt person.

[00:11:20] Ioannidou: Okay, that's a disease. I have it too, I have it too. I get you.

[00:11:26] Wright: Y'all would be very good friends.

[00:11:29] Pierre: So, I don't know if necessarily wellness was my focus in dental school, but I learned a lot from those people. That's my family. I learned a lot from them and they helped make me who I am today.

[00:11:43] Ioannidou: Where did you go to dental school?

[00:11:44] Wright: I was just about to ask that, I love it.

[00:11:47] Pierre: I went to Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee.

[00:11:51] Ioannidou: Oh, cool.

[00:11:52] Pierre: But I had a lot of events and a lot of experiences with those people, whether it be in dental class, in dental school or if it was on a mission trip or if it was just personal interactions that I had with people. You know, I can honestly say that they taught me a lot.

[00:12:14] Wright: When you think about dental school, while we're on it, just really quickly, like in retrospect now with the program that you did and focusing on imposter syndrome and wellness, were there any things that you noticed from your dental school days that you're like, “whoa, I could have used some wellness pearls or some tips and gems during dental school” now that you've gone through the program?

[00:12:34] Pierre: Yeah, for sure. I just didn't know how to deal with stress and I found myself getting into a whole bunch of different things and now looking back at it, I'm very much like, yeah, maybe I could have, you know, meditated at this moment.

[00:12:53] Wright: Yeah.

[00:12:54] Ioannidou: You know, it's the loads of stress. I don't have memories, I don't even remember anything. I think all these memories were deleted, it's a blur, I mean, it has been very, very long time, so.

[00:13:04] Wright: Oh, stop. It hasn't been that long.

[00:13:07] Ioannidou: Oh, yeah. It has been very long time.

[00:13:10] Wright: Well, keep the listeners guessing. Don't tell them how long it's been.

[00:13:12] Ioannidou: I am not going to say that, but I think the mechanism of you know, it's kind of survival skill, right? You delete the memories to keep on moving and living a happy life because I have very stressful and very annoying memories from school, but as we speak about the imposter syndrome, how have you dealt with this? Did you have experiences like this and how have you dealt with this in your own career?

[00:13:40] Pierre: Yeah, so I definitely experienced it and I've found different ways to, like, overcome it. So like, going back to dental school, I'll just tell you a little bit about me—like I said, I'm from New Orleans and I'm a first-generation doc.

I know doctors you know, like my parents are friends of people who are doctors, but as far as like in my family, I'm first generation and I remember when I got to dental school, you meet so many people whose parents are doctors or whatever the case may be. And I was like, “oh, okay, alright, got it.”

And so, I kind of went through like an imposter syndrome phase at that time. Like, I always thought of myself as being pretty smart, but I was like, “am I that smart? Like, how did I get here?” You know, what's going on?

[00:14:46] Wright: Was it a little bit of belonging?

[00:14:48] Pierre: I guess you can say that, but it was more so just like, you just don't know what you don't know. You know what I'm saying? Like it was just, yeah like, how did I get here?

[00:15:02] Ioannidou: You doubted yourself?

[00:15:03] Pierre: Yeah, I doubted myself, I never didn't feel comfortable, but I also was like, “don't get too comfortable.”

[00:15:12] Wright: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like that, I can relate to that.

[00:15:15] Pierre: Yeah. So I was always comfortable, but the thought was always, don't get too comfortable. So that was like my first stint, and I kind of got over that really quickly, but then it was right when I graduated, every patient who saw me was like, “you're the doctor? You're too young to be the doctor.” And I was like, “oh” and I actually had some experiences they were kind of hard to deal with, especially when you first come out and so, I had a few experiences where, you know, just to be candid, like I had one patient, I'll never forget this. They were like, “I don't know if I want to be seen by him, like, he looks like, he like just graduated high school” and I was like, “dang, okay”. Like, you know, all right then, you know.

I had a patient one time, they called because I was the new doc in the office and I was in the office with another doctor, they called and they asked to be seen by the other doctor. They just didn't feel comfortable. I had people ask about my race and different things like that and you know, it just was kind of like, “uh, okay, this is weird” and, you know, it kind of affected me mentally. Especially like, when I first got out.

[00:16:47] Wright: Absolutely.

[00:16:47] Pierre: But thankfully, you know, I got over it. I'm a Christian and so I just went to prayer and that was like the big thing for me, but I also talked about it. Like, I talked with my colleagues and I talked about it with people, like people that I knew for a long time and people who I had just met in the profession, just to get different perspectives on it.

[00:17:11] Wright: Yeah, that's critical.

[00:17:12] Pierre: I think one thing that happens a lot, you go to your home base, and you talk about the issues with them, but sometimes it's good just to get like a new perspective and to like really understand, because that's a fresh set of eyes.

[00:17:29] Ioannidou: Yeah.

[00:17:30] Pierre: I didn't, it wasn't overkill, like I didn't talk to like every single person about it, but I talked about it.

[00:17:36] Wright: You mean to tell me you didn't dump it on everybody?

[00:17:39] Pierre: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:17:43] Wright: So basically, you navigated it by leaning on your colleagues, talking to friends, even those that are newer, just to get those fresh perspectives.

[00:17:52] Pierre: Absolutely.

[00:17:53] Wright: Yeah, that's really good. That kind of goes back to the village that you started to talk about in the intro, not necessarily only through the ADA, but just like in community, having people that you can lean and depend on.

[00:18:06] Pierre: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's important that like everyone has a village of some sort, even if it's one other person. Like having someone that you can talk to and talk these things out with that is invaluable because like there's only so much like you can do in your mind by yourself.

[00:18:28] Wright: Oh, we're limited.

[00:18:30] Pierre: Yeah. So when you can go and talk to someone and like really get these things figured out. And sometimes the reason why it's important to talk is because sometimes we make things up in our mind too. Like very true. Sometimes something can be so small and we've made it this big, and so when you talk to someone who has a different perspective, it sometimes put things into perspective, for lack of a better term.

It is like, hey.

[00:19:03] Wright: You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

[00:19:06] Pierre: Exactly. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:19:08] Ioannidou: Yeah. Do you think that, um, do, do you share experiences like this with your, you know, dental school classmates that also practice, you know, similar time as you do, or perhaps in different settings, but do people you think experience, um, similar situations of imposter type syndrome?

[00:19:30] Pierre: I definitely think like everyone goes through it on some level. I think every single one of us experiences it. Yeah. Do I think that everyone knows exactly what it is? No, I don't. I think some people walk away from the situation and they're like, I don't know what just happened, but I don't feel like that should have happened and it wasn't the best experience for me.

I think that's what a lot of people do.

[00:19:58] Wright: Yep.

[00:19:59] Ioannidou: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[00:20:01] Pierre: It's like you just don't know what to call it.

[00:20:03] Ioannidou: Yeah. You are absolutely right. People don't self-diagnose, or you know, if this is a diagnosis, but, you know, it's definitely, an experience, right, that many of us have.

I remember, my first year in practice, after residency in Greece as, you know, young periodontist, you know, in my probably, I was in my early thirties.

[00:20:32] Wright: Just a couple years ago.

[00:20:34] Ioannidou: Exactly. So I remember, you know, I had solo practice, right? I was the only dentist in the practice and an assistant. So I, you know, I would get referrals as a periodontist from colleagues that I start. I had started establishing a circle of pretty decent successful circle of referrals.

One day I have a, I will never forget this. I had a patient an elderly patient, a lady that came for, was referred, came for initial exam. You know, I proposed a treatment plan. Pretty straightforward phase one therapy. Like nothing, nothing outrageous. Very, very, you know, classic, you know, severe periodontitis has never been treated, phase one, whatever.

So I had set my fees based on the market, right? I had done a market analysis. How, you know, what exactly, at the time, periodontist in Greece, were charging specially periodontist you know, like, an actually trained periodontists, not so-called, periodontists, like, you know, people with residency under their belt.

So I had my, and based on this market analysis, I had set my fees. So I presented it to the patient and, you know, I give the total amount, which I don't even remember, but it wouldn't even matter because it's in euros so who cares.

And the patient turns to me and says this almost, she didn't say, how dare you, but almost that she said. What were you, what are you thinking? Do you think that you are a, you know, a male professor? Why would you charge so much? Who do you think you are? You are so young. So basically the expectation is that the fees have to be prorated based on.

[00:22:26] Wright: All based how many years you've been in practice?

[00:22:27] Ioannidou: The experience. Yes. How seasoned you are. Wow. And it blew my mind, so exactly what Jordan just says. So, I knew that this was wrong, but of course you are caught, you know, it's like so shocking. The moment is so strong and so I felt so shocked that I was like, oh my God. Like how do you respond back to this? You're not prepared to hear something so blunt.

Yeah, right. So this was my first imposter type of syndromic experience.

[00:23:00] Wright: So wait, can we double click on that for a second? Effie. So when you say that's like your experience, what about that made you feel like an imposter?

[00:23:08] Ioannidou: It made me feel that, oh maybe this woman is right. I doubted myself. Maybe she's right. Maybe it, it's too much for me to, you know, start the practice six months ago and, you know, set my fees at the level of everybody else is, which absolutely makes sense. Right? Absolutely makes sense. And it's, it's the way that you you build your financial model, but at the time I doubted myself.

And I remember I called my parents after the appointment and I said, am I making a mistake here? Like, I had this ex, this experience with this, this person. HIPAA violation big time. Yeah. They tried to boost my confidence and give me, um, the actually pretty, pretty solid advice not to second guess myself and move forward.

Like turn the page if she wants to come back. She does. She came back. Oh wow. Yeah.

[00:24:04] Wright: Oh my gosh.

[00:24:05] Ioannidou: Now I don't know how and why, but she did come back.

[00:24:08] Wright: That always baffles me as an aside, like sometimes when patients are a little harsh or, you know, they question certain things, but then they still want to be a patient of record.

So yeah. Um, that's something to navigate too. Um, not quite the imposter syndrome, but it's just like patient relations, right?

[00:24:25] Ioannidou: Yeah. Very weird. A very weird experience. Yeah.

[00:24:29] Wright: We'll be right back.

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[00:25:15] Wright: Imposter syndrome shows up at all stages of our professional journeys. Here's one dental student's experience.

[00:25:23] Zapanta: Hi everyone. My name is Razel Zapanta and I'm a third-year dental student at A.T. Still University Arizona School of Dentistry and Oral Health. I'm a Filipino American, born and raised in Los Angeles, California.

And a fun fact about me is that I was a contestant on Wheel of Fortune. It was such a surreal experience and definitely something I'll never forget. I also love singing, and my dream is to be a singing dentist, a dentist by day, and a singer at night. I've been a part of choirs and acapella groups for years, so music has always been a big part of my life.

Today I wanna talk about something a lot of us experience, but don't always say out loud. Imposter syndrome. For me, it started when I was applying to dental school and preparing for my dental admission test, also known as a DAT. I remember constantly feeling like my application wasn't strong enough or that I wasn't as qualified as everyone else.

After I took the DATI still didn't feel confident in my score, so I decided to retake it. I kept wondering, do I even belong here? Something I've realized is that people often don't talk about their failures. We love sharing the wins, but not always the setbacks. I wanted to help normalize failure and say this clearly, it's okay to fail. We're human after all. I say this because I've been there.

One of the hardest moments for me was when I took my INBDE board exam this past December and failed. I was devastated and I remember feeling completely crushed and disappointed in myself. I'd seen my classmates posting pass online and I was genuinely happy for them, but deep down. I really felt like a failure.

Thoughts such as, what if I'm not cut out for this and what if I'm not smart enough? Flooded in. And that voice didn't stop there; it would creep in after a tough patient interaction. Or when I saw classmates doing amazing clinical work, I would compare myself and think they're so confident and I feel so behind.

But over time I learned to let those negative thoughts not take over completely. I tried to replace them with positive ones, like I'm proud of how far I've come, or I didn't give up. I studied for months and I retook the INBDE in March, and this time I passed. That moment felt like a huge weight was lifted.

Honestly, I'm proud of myself for failing and choosing to try again. So when those thoughts come back, here's what I try to do; first, I remind myself that feelings aren't facts. Next. Just because I feel like I'm not good enough doesn't mean it's true. Then I try to figure out where that voice is coming from. Most of the time it's perfectionism or fear of failure. Once I recognize that, I meet it with compassion instead of criticism. I'll say, it's okay to feel this way, or you're still learning and you're doing your best. I also lean on my support systems such as my friends, mentors, classmates, and my family.

Opening up reminded me that almost everyone, even the people I admire, have dealt with imposter syndrome in some way. That helped me realize that I'm not alone. I also keep little reminders such as screenshots of kind messages. I've received even photos of my progress from D1 to now, and these receipts show that I am still growing, even if I don't always see it in the moment.

And finally, I remind myself that being a student means making mistakes. That's how we learn. We're not here to be perfect. We're here to grow. And being a dentist means being a lifelong learner. We never stop learning, and it's okay to ask questions, to fail and to try again. So if you're listening and if you've ever felt like an imposter, know that you're not alone.

It is okay to question yourself. It means you care, but don't let that doubt stop you from showing up. You've worked so hard to get there and you do belong. Here's a friendly reminder I go back to all the time. You are right where you need to be. Keep going even when it feels tough. And don't forget to be proud of how far you've come.

Thank you so much for listening, and thank you for inviting me to share a little bit about my story.

[00:29:50] Ioannidou: Thank you so much.

[00:29:52] Wright: What would you say are like maybe your top two reasons why new dentists are prone to experiencing imposter syndrome?

[00:29:59] Pierre: My top two reasons would be, I'm gonna lump it up into one being communication, and then two not enough mentorship and not being poured into. So like I, and I tell this to docs all the time, whenever you know, someone's like, oh, I'm thinking about joining this practice or going with this company, I'm gonna be working with this doctor.

You know, a lot of people, we live in a day and age of social media. And, um, people love certain doctors because of what they see on social media, right? Like they are great clinicians from what we see. But every great clinician is not a great mentor.

[00:30:51] Ioannidou: Absolutely not. Yeah.

[00:30:53] Pierre: I love teaching.

[00:30:54] Ioannidou: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:55] Pierre: I am definitely a nerd in the profession.

[00:30:58] Wright: So you've committed yourself to lifelong learning, which we all can applaud.

I love it.

[00:31:04] Pierre: Yeah. I mean, and that's the, that's the politically correct term to use. Lifelong, lifelong learning.

[00:31:11] Ioannidou: I like what you said, Jordan, about mentorship and I would say, I would add one more thing. I think it's really important to be, to have a mentoring at those early stages, but throughout your career actually, I think it's important. But I think that to find the right mentor and the fact that good clinicians or you know, I don't know, successful academicians or anybody that is older than you, doesn't qualify them or the person to be a good mentor, right?

I think number one, for me, the number one characteristic of a good mentor is the person that really is prepared to give back. They're done with their own promotion. And now they are ready to give back to the community, to give back to their peers, to give back to the, you know, the person that they think that they can offer something. So it has to be very altruistic.

[00:32:00] Wright: Yes.

[00:32:00] Pierre: Yeah.

[00:32:01] Wright: I really love how you segued into teaching. You love to teach. I believe that the best mentors are those who are great teachers. Because also to your point, Effie, it's those who are pretty much done with their journey and they're ready to give back. I think those are a great teachers. So, um. As we speak a a little bit more about this topic, maybe you can share a little bit about, um, you know, how mentorship has, I guess, transformed your life as it relates to, um, imposter syndrome within the profession.

[00:32:34] Pierre: Oh, I love my mentors. I love it.

[00:32:37] Wright: Yeah. Have you shared like situations with them specifically when you were dealing with an imposter, so imposter syndrome, excuse me, episode or, or moment that they've helped you navigate?

[00:32:50] Pierre: The one thing that has really come to me. 'cause for me, my imposter syndrome was more so about me looking young and not fitting the, um,

[00:33:03] Wright: the stereotype.

[00:33:04] Pierre: Thank you. I, I didn't fit that. I didn't fit that. Yeah. And so my whole thing was like, I used to go and like, I remember one time I went to a mentor and I was like, how can I make myself look older? And it was like, don't do that. And I was like, oh, you're right.

[00:33:19] Ioannidou: Exactly.

[00:33:20] Pierre: Everybody had to just start at some time.

[00:33:23] Wright: Somewhere. Yeah.

[00:33:24] Pierre: Think about that. Like everybody started at a certain point.

[00:33:27] Ioannidou: Everybody was young. One someday one day.

[00:33:29] Pierre: Yeah. That's why I would tell anybody, if anybody gets anything out of this podcast, I would tell you get a mentor and get a good circle of people that you really trust and you really can lean into, that is invaluable.

[00:33:51] Wright: Very true.

[00:33:51] Pierre: I now have mentors outside of dentistry even, you know, just I. I have a mentor at the YMCA. Like great guy isn't doing any feelings on anyone.

[00:34:04] Ioannidou: Good for him.

[00:34:04] Pierre: Yeah. Yeah. Like find people that you can pour into and then, but also find people that pour into you.

[00:34:14] Ioannidou: I think these are all great advice.

Isn't great advices and great tips and you know, I'm, I mean, it makes me. Things that, um, uh, our audience will find this discussion super useful, especially our newer, uh, dentist like me.

[00:34:31] Wright: Yes. Like you, my people. I'm so glad. My people, find your people.

[00:34:37] Announcer: On the next Dental Sound Bites.

[00:34:39] Wright: We're tackling the widespread misunderstanding about insurance, how it works, navigating the challenges, and what's been done to help dentists on this issue.

We are so glad that we were able to have you on Dr. Pierre. It is really been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for being here. Can you tell our listeners where they can follow you or reach out if they wanna connect with you and talk more about imposter syndrome?

[00:35:07] Pierre: If you wanna connect with me, I'm an old school guy, you're going to have to email me.

[00:35:14] Wright: Nothing wrong with that.

[00:35:16] Pierre: Uh, jordanapierre@gmail.com. Feel free to email me at any time. Um, I will respond again, guys, like I really want to like, find a circle. Um, I am happy to be a person for anybody. Um, I am not everyone's person. I will start off by saying that, and I think that's what makes me a really good mentor is because,

[00:35:47] Ioannidou: Oh, that's so nice.

[00:35:48] Pierre: I will let you know if I'm not your person. But find your people. Go to them, use them, they've been there before. Give yourself grace. Love yourself. Love, love on yourself, constantly pour into yourself, but find your circle.

[00:36:09] Wright: That was awesome.

[00:36:10] Ioannidou: Oh, this is a great, great, great finale. Yeah. Thank you so much.

This is really, really nice. Uh, I, we really appreciate this, uh, the discussion and the tips and the wisdom. So, and see, the wisdom doesn't come with gray hair only.

[00:36:27] Wright: Exactly everybody.

[00:36:29] Ioannidou: Right?

[00:36:30] Wright: Yeah, yeah.

[00:36:32] Ioannidou: To all our listeners, we are going to link all the resources and information mentioned in this episode in our show notes. So you can find them on ada.org/podcast. And if you like this episode, please share it with a friend. Then be sure to subscribe wherever you're listening so we can, you can get all the latest episodes.

[00:36:59] Wright: You can also rate it, write a review, and follow us on social media.

[00:37:03] Ioannidou: Goodbye.

[00:37:05] Wright: Goodbye everyone.

[00:37:09] Announcer: Thank you for joining us. Dental Sound Bites is an American Dental Association podcast. You can also find this show resources and more on the ADA member app and online at ada.org/podcast.